Controversy at the Carnival, round two
OK, promised rant. I shall address both sides, and I would really appreciate your comments, whether or not you agree with me. It began with a submission to last week's Carnival of Homeschooling which was rejected on the basis of cursing in another entry:
This action was taken because HSB is a Christian blog host website and the members of HSB have a right to trust that the websites we are linking them to are safe for them to read. Profanity is not acceptable for our readers.This occurred after the posting when one of the readers looked through more of the blog and left a comment.
On principle, I'd say TOS (that week's host) can link to, or refuse to link to anything it wishes for any reason. If that is an issue, perhaps it shouldn't host. Which it appears it shan't be doing in future.
Instead, I question this attitude which I see expressed in various ways, "...the members of HSB have a right to trust that the websites we are linking are safe for them to read." There is a mentality I see peppered throughout Christian blogs and websites that seems to think I need protection from this evil thing that is the internet.
One even advised me to pray and seek the counsel of my husband if I encountered anything I didn't understand. Deep breath, and...EXCUSE ME???!!!
Just how mindless do you think I am? I am quite used to the accusations regarding sheep mentality from non-Christians. Read through the comments on here, here and here for a sampling of what the world thinks of us, just in case you have never noticed. I encounter it daily. I don't need it from Christians. Especially when the scripture teaches:
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.--Matthew 10:16I am supposed to go out among the wolves. Not sit at home and play bibleopoly all day. And I think somewhere in there, I am given the Holy Spirit as a comforter. Not warnings in sidebars that (gasp) the world is not the perfect place it once was.
Perhaps I should post my own warning:
If you are at risk of losing your faith based on a blog post, maybe you should rethink this whole internet thing. Certainly don't visit this site. I have atheists, agnostics and a wiccan or two in those blogrolls. I even read some of them. Regularly. I don not consider a blog's politics, religion, or sexual orientation before linking. I link to make a point or provide a reference.(Addition: Milehimama said something which prompted me to clarify. If you link to something you know members of your audience may find offensive, I have absolutely no issue with a warning. I've done it myself. This is a reaction to blanket warnings and a general mentality which seems to think that I need someone to hold my hand through the internet.)
And on to the other side.
I'm not sure how, but I generally seem to get along with a diverse group of people. I think maybe it is because I kind of like people. I like discussion and debate. I have strong beliefs and convictions which have never been shaken by confrontation. Ironically, it was a homosexual TA in college who successfully prodded me back into the church after a semester of sitting through his God-hating rants. Confrontation tends to strengthen my resolve.
For some reason, however, the continual ranting about Christianity on secular homeschooling blogs gets to me after a bit. I presume they are a little tired of being lumped together with Christians just like we are all tired of the socialization question. I don't know. It is just a guess. But why the anger?
There seems to me a bit of...dare I call it hypocrisy?
Eireann (unschooler) says:
Henry replied to me saying:“My vision for
the carnival is one of respectful posts which teach all of
us and help us all to be better homeschoolers.”I believe that he has the right idea but I’m not sure he can corral the close-minded religious folk into linking to objectionable content such as ours.
Fair enough. She is the one whose entry was pulled. But as I read through the rest of the discussion, I wonder who it is that is refusing to link to whom.
Seriously...read through the comments. the immediate reaction to the offense is to boycott the carnival (again), point out how they never really read it anyway, start up another one, and not link to the carnival. Don't forget to scroll over all HSB links because they never have anything to say. That is all fine. If the carnival, and particularly its Christian contributors who submit voluntarily as do non-Christians, are so offensive, don't link to it. Like HSB refuses to link to content it finds offensive. The last time this blew up, someone insisted that their entry be removed:
One Carnival submittor asked me to delete/remove their entry from this 18th Carnival of Homeschooling as they didn't personally agree with what was stated in another Carnival blogger's entry within this same Carnival. The topic was about parenting, discipline, and the use of physical pain infliction on children...
They did not want to be associated via linking to another person's entry with which they disagreed. At one point in the initial boycott, someone stated they would not link to anyone who linked to HSB. Talk about "scrubbing" blogs to make sure content is acceptable.
You are supposed to be free thinkers. At least that is the description I read most often in the comments. Will that be taken from you if you stumble across one too many Christian posts?As Eirann said in her comment to me earlier,
I'd love to hear your rant...seems everyone has an opinion on the topic.It works both ways.
The COH seemed like a brilliant idea to showcase diversity but some aren't ready for what they may read. The thing is...there's this little button at the top of every browser....it says BACK. If you don't like the blog you've come to and aren't willing to open you mind...or debate...click away.
(Here is round one, if you are interested. The animosity goes way back. And I did get taken off the "Blogs Against Hitting Kids" list for that entry.)
Related Tags: carnivals, carnival of homeschooling, HSB boycott, homeschooling
19 comments:
Well, I "censor" my links and blogroll - I've got a few blogs I enjoy regularly but won't link to for that very reason - I wouldn't share them with my mom either.
I'm more of a "There's two sides to every issue" kinda gal... I get my news from CNN, Yahoo!, the local TV station website, and sites like Newsmax. I figure the truth will come out in the wash after I read the same info with 6 different spins.
What I do on my blog if I am linking is just put a little "Not for Kids" note next to the link - something I'd appreciate as a parent. Then the reader can choose for themselves. What's wrong with that?
Dana I agree with you.. we are all supposed to be grown-ups..
Don't like something you read.. don't link to it.. or just skip it.. but allow everyone else to be able to make that decision too. That's why censorship is wrong. It takes away a person's ability to choose for themselves.
Also I find this whole Internet arguing thing to be somewhat juvenile and a waste of my reading time. We forget that we all have one thing in common.. homeschooling our kids. Everyone has different beliefs and methods.. and we ought to all accept that reality cheerfully knowing that the bottom line is that we are doing the best for our kids... each in our own way.
It was a mistake for HSB to volunteer to host the COH, knowing that their blog policies conflicted with the standards of the COH.
Good post, Dana.
I think that using the word "censor" is a bit harsh - the blogger is still free to post, just not on that particular site. Yet any potential conflicts should have been addressed beforehand.
There's nothing necessarily wrong with having limited "memberships", if you will, but such parameters should also be clear, from the start. Within the context of a blog carnival, however, such a limit on participants will stifle, in my opinion, the discussion and debate. I suppose, with regards to one's own blog, it also depends on just who your intended audience is. With my culture blog I'm open to visits by those diametrically opposed to my worldview. I've had lively discussions with such visitors, in the past, and I think that has helped some of the visitors to my site that happen to agree with me.
My blogroll includes a few sites that promulgate views I do not agree with, and my Google Reader list includes many more. I believe that we, as Christians, need to be fully aware of the current secular worldviews, especially if we are preparing our children to become adults.
Milehimama: I agree. And perhaps that is how I would have handled this post, were I the host, although I doubt it seeing as the actual post in question had nothing wrong with it. There is nothing wrong with providing a warning to a link...I have, but I think it had to do with profanity. My warning was a tad sarcastic, but I'll leave it. : )
Judy, that has summarized my feelings for a long time. I'm not saying Christians are necessarily any better at this, but the sites I read don't engage in it. My thoughts as a Christian are "egregiously offensive" as a conservative and a Christian. Don't waste time trying to convince me you are a "free thinker" or open to open debate when you go forth with a premise like that. (And not all secular hsers are like that, but it is an idea I run into a lot on the blogs I read, especially in the comments.)
Dave, I agree. I might have gotten into it more if it hadn't been resolved before I got to it. I censored a post for my carnival...it was about homeschooling but against it. Funny thing was, I was inclined to accept it and have the guidelines changed for future. I still could have, but decided not to after discussion with Henry.
Rusty, I couldn't agree more. A carnival should not censor except where the entry is clearly a violation of the guidelines set out. As a Christian hosting, one needs to be aware that there will be challenges to you worldview...even coming from other Christians. As a non-Christian (hosting a homeschooling carnival) you need to be aware that Christians may participate. They may even talk about how Christ is the center of their homeschool.
Great post. You really summed up my thoughts on this whole thing - both sides.
I'm an atheist/agnostic who fully supports any bloggers right to accept or reject any submissions. It's your property and no one has a right to your space or time.
Furthermore, there's absolutely no reason why anyone should feel the need to use profanity on their blog. I wouldn't do it simply because it would make me look ignorant, but also because I run the risk of alienating potential readers who would then not have the benefit of my messages.
People who do that in their blogs either don't believe in their own messages or they are intentionally being controversial--probably because they think it's the only way they'll get traffic.
But why would anyone want to alienate their audience? I have no idea. But the bottom line is that "censorship" is something the government does. Private owners of property are under no obligation to provide a stage for those with whom they disagree--that is not censorship.
I tend to agree, Ed. I don't understand the need to control content on other blogs. I don't particularly care what either side links to or doesn't link to...but they are doing the same thing whether they realize it or not.
I think the most disturbing thing is summed up in this sentence: "If you are at risk of losing your faith based on a blog post, maybe you should rethink this whole internet thing."
Why do Christians feel so threatened by other views? Perhaps their churches aren't doing a good job educating them about the facts of our faith. It is sad that these folks feel this way because they certainly can't go out into the world at all.
Since I dropped the bomb on the whole COH gag, I guess I should elaborate on my previous comment.
Here's the skinny...I blog about whatever I please. Blogging is my zen. Religion and church & state topics are my hot button right now. Blogging about them...in whatever manner I see fit is my right.
I enjoy sarcasm and the occasional profane term should be expected. I could really care less about whether some people feel that it makes me look ignorant. Ignorance is not saying what you really mean because you may offend a reader or two.
BTW...I'm not blogging for traffic. Traffic is idiot science and numbers mean nothing in the end. Actually, I'm not blogging for readers either. I started my blog for me. Selfish? Yes. Honest? Yes.
So read it or don't. I could care less. I'm not being disrespectful or rude...I'm just being honest. I'm sorry if I didn't construct a properly poised comment. I hate being fake.
Oh sheesh...
It's kinda' funny that I caught this post. I guess I'm outta the loop... funny thing is that I am one of the posts from last week's Carnival that unschooler blamed for boycotting the COH in the first place.
I didn't know about the submission rejection, just that after she exposed me as "whatever" on her blog, she felt the need to sensationalize it and post about it at least 1 more time, and maybe 2.
That and the outrage over the post not being accepted seems to conflict with the whole assertion of "Actually, I'm not blogging for readers either. I started my blog for me. Selfish? Yes. Honest? Yes.
So read it or don't. I could care less. ", though, doesn't it??
I am still getting a reader or 2 coming from the posts she did in RE: to my post on "back-talking", and I noticed there is a new one.
I understand that she, as an atheist, doesn't include Child Training for the Lord 101 as curriculum in her homeschool, but her boycott is the same thing as if I got upset because there were submissions included on the Charlotte Mason method of homeschooling - or unschooling, etc., because I integrate the Heart of Wisdom approach in our homeschool. Some - many - homeschoolers integrate a Christian faith into their teaching, and it should be expected that they include it as a natural part of their homeschooling, in their homes, their teaching, and even on their blogs.
I am not sure that I would have declined her submission. It is the COH, not the CoChristianH. I understand HSB's stand, though, and I do agree with Ed on the premise that "it's my blog, and I'll link if I want to...", but I think I would have rejected or accepted based on the merit of the submission and added a warning. I, as an adult, can decide based on the content of the post if I want to read other posts authored by this individual.
Ok, this is long enough!
I'm working on those submissions for you...
ttys... J
homeschoolblogger.com/JacqueDixonSoulRestES
Hello, it's me again...
I just went and read Tia's Re: in last week's COH comments, and I can understand what she did based on the fact that she, as HSB Editor, is looking out for everyone who has a blog on HSB... adults and children.
Of course, she may have done the same thing had it been her personal blog, I don't know. I do think she tried to not make it a big controversy and handle it as best she could.
Tough call.
I read unschooler's comments and opinions of me - someone she doesn't know in the slightest - based on a few words in a post.
Whether you believe it or not... what comes around goes around... er, better yet... O; What you sow, that shall you reap?
Tough call, like I said.
I do think it is a shame that the blogger who was offended was actually wanting to find out more about unschooling and found what she considered objectionable.
I know that I browse homeschool blogs to glean insight or info on other ideas and methods. That is one good thing about the COH, isn't it???
ok... NOW enough said, I think.
-J
That whole Nazi mom thing got edited out after my original post got way longer than intended and I decided it was only tangential, anyway. Ironically, I have difficulty getting HSB blogs to load, and yours is one of the few I bother with.
I agree that HSB can link to what they want, as I stated at the start, just as unschooler and the rest can refuse to link to Christians, the carnival and all of HSB.
With this being a carnival, I feel the editor in general should be careful about exercising that right or perhaps decline to host.
A little rewording of the rejection, and most of this post wouldn't have been. It is something I noticed a long time ago and decided to drop numerous times. Merely pointing out their audience and their linking policy (whether it is published or not, I know they have to have a policy regarding what they will link) would have sufficed. That bit about guarding my "safety" as opposed to the offensiveness of the blog in question rubs me personally the wrong way.
What I find interesting is that in all of this is that the only person in my comments who has so far defended HSB's stance is an atheist. All of us Christians who are so opposed to the free exchange of ideas seem to agree that the post should have remained. Maybe with a warning about the content of other posts (which would have probably driven more traffic, anyway!).
I enjoyed reading your post.
I do want to point something out to everyone. I enjoy School of Thought, so I have read most of the post, and yes some contain profanity (hard to explain but to me it's not offensive it's more a cultural thing - she reminds me of Nuala Anne in Andrew Greely's books.), but when Eireann started submitting post to the CoH I noticed something right away. All her submissions were on homeschooling and non had objectionable content. She apparently took the time and trouble to make sure the post she submitted wouldn't offend anyone.
I really think if you are going to host a CoH you should link to all submissions as long as they aren't objectionable are totally Off topic.
People you have a back button, if you find a blog objectionable don't read it, but it's not your place to decide if others can/should read it.
I also link to blogs I don't agree with 100%. I link to one science blog because his post on science are interesting. His attitude toward homeschoolers on the other hand is irritating.
Thanks for a really great post on the subject.
Thanks, Alasandra. You make a good point about the cultural thing. I hadn't thought about that, but I know I read posts with limited profanity now and again, but barely notice it. My husband is Australian, and while his language has tamed considerably since moving here, I am used to that sort of language.
I've read a number of unschoolers posts, although more back when I hosted the CoH last because hers was a new blog for me. I've never had issues with people I disagree with.
I am on the tail end of this conversation, but wanted to say I agree with your post. As one who homeschools for secular reasons and frequents many of these blogs for their educational content, I am saddened with the response.
I do agree that one can still have a strong faith and opinions and NOT be rude to others whose faith,or lack of it, differs.
I chose another route, and blogged about it yesterday.
Thanks, Angela. And I appreciated your thoughts on the issue. They are here, for anyone interested.
I had decided to start following Eireann's blog after this flared up, and now she's quit blogging, apparently. Oh well.
That's too bad. I didn't follow her blog regularly, but read it occasionally. She said she enjoys writing and blogging is a nice outlet for that!
I hope she just decided to pursue other interests rather than that something necessitating her exit from blogging. I always worry a little when people just disappear.
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